LANDYOT
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• Subscriber since 11/23/2003 |
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• Newport News, VA, USA |
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• Registered on 7/15/2003 |
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• 1,110 posts |
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 Posted:10/21/2005 16:49 |
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The GEN-I and GEN-II radius-rods have been well-received by Excursion owners here at SuperMotors, as well as from other forums, and I must thank y’all for that. A few folks have gone so far as to say they’ve probably saved some lives by preventing loss of vehicle control. This has all been very good, but the GEN-I and GEN-II radius-rod designs are not quite how I’d like them to be.
In the future, and depending on the amount of interest I receive here, I may develop and offer a weld-on radius-rod kit. This new design would be how I originally planned to put them on my truck before I gave thought to offering the radius-rods to others … before I made them a mostly bolt-on design.
The proposed design would require welding hinge-tabs to the front spring perch, which in turn requires unbolting and dropping the forward end of the leaf springs so the leaf spring bushings will not melt while the tabs are being finish-welded. The proposed weld-on kit would be available at a lower cost than the bolt-on kits because I will not have to fab, fit, and weld spring-clamp assemblies, and the square U-bolts would be eliminated.
If you think you’d prefer this style of radius-rod kit, please let me know by posting a reply here, or by dropping me an e-mail. If a substantial amount of interest is shown, I will build them. Regardless, I will build at least one set to install on my Excursion.
Furthermore, if you already have a GEN-II radius-rod kit installed, and are interested in upgrading to a weld-on kit, let me know. I may offer a retro-fit kit to upgrade the GEN-II from bolt-on to weld-on.
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monsta
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• The Big Island, HI, USA |
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• Registered on 1/5/2002 |
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• 1,056 posts |
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Posted:10/21/2005 17:30 |
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I'm curious as to where the tabs would be welded.
Would they be lower than the bolt hole for the spring?
I'm all for the weld-on design provided the welding wouldn't sacrifice the OEM frame strength.
It would be cool, too, to make it so that the springs could be remounted lower as to give a bit of lift to the saggy rear end.
I would say the biggest problem with welding would be that some folks may not be able to find a [u]competent[/u] welder or even have the desire as compared to a bolt-on design.
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LANDYOT
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• Subscriber since 11/23/2003 |
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• Newport News, VA, USA |
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• Registered on 7/15/2003 |
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• 1,110 posts |
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Posted:10/22/2005 09:14 |
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| Quote: | | Would they be lower than the bolt hole for the spring? |
Yes.
| Quote: | | I'm all for the weld-on design provided the welding wouldn't sacrifice the OEM frame strength. |
Agreed ... tabs would be welded to the bottom of the spring perch, not the frame.
| Quote: | | It would be cool, too, to make it so that the springs could be remounted lower as to give a bit of lift to the saggy rear end.. |
I'm not attempting to do that. The best place for that kind of mod is at the shackle-end of the leaf springs.
| Quote: | | I would say the biggest problem with welding would be that some folks may not be able to find a competent welder or even have the desire as compared to a bolt-on design. |
Indeed, and that is the reason I made the GEN-I & GEN-II clamp to the leaf springs. My original intent and design was to make only one radius-rod kit (mine), weld it on my truck, and be done with it ... never offering it to others. Only after hearing others complain of the same ride quality problem did I change them to what folks now know as the GEN-I and GEN-II radius-rods ... a mostly bolt-on design. |
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Dunedog
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• Porterville, CA, USA |
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• Registered on 10/18/2005 |
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• 3 posts |
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Posted:10/22/2005 15:09 |
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Sent you a $100 deposit this morning. Hope you still have some left.
2005 X 4x4 GEN 1 because of future Air bag install.
MIke |
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housedad
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• mt royal, NJ, USA |
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• Registered on 10/8/2005 |
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• 88 posts |
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Posted:10/24/2005 11:58 |
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I'm going to bite on this one. I was all set to send my paypal deposit today (last day) but I will hold off. I see advantages to having it mount on the frame side instead of the spring, lest of which is reduced bind. This clamping location was the one and only misgiving that I had about ordering them.
I am a competent welder myself, having gone through welding school until pipe certification some years ago, and getting my airframe welding cert @ 5 years ago. This kind of welding does not need that level of expertise, though. Any local welding shop could put them on for you easily and at a small cost. Just remember to brush the weld well, apply zink spray, and paint.
So please put me on your email list about these. I will order them when and if you decide to go for it. If you don't decide to make them, let me know and I will get in on the next production batch you make of the GEN-I.
Another avenue that you may wish to persue is a bolt on mount that would require drilling a couple of holes in the frame. This would allevieate any thoughts about induced heat stress on the spring mounts. could be made with cut and slotted box channel or heavy C channel. Just ideas.
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LANDYOT
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• Subscriber since 11/23/2003 |
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• Newport News, VA, USA |
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• Registered on 7/15/2003 |
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• 1,110 posts |
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Posted:10/24/2005 18:48 |
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Roger - Thanks for the reply. But first, you really need to edit your post above and remove your e-mail address. Posting your address within a forum like this opens yourself to spam (online "bots" search such text). I know 'cause it happened when someone else posted my address in another forum.
| Quote: | | I am a competent welder myself, having gone through welding school until pipe certification some years ago, and getting my airframe welding cert @ 5 years ago. This kind of welding does not need that level of expertise, though. Any local welding shop could put them on for you easily and at a small cost. |
You are not the only one who has made note of their welding abilities to me among the various e-mails I've received over the last several months. I know a weld-on kit is not for everyone, but it will suit qualified individuals well, along with those who can locate a competent welder in their local area.
| Quote: | Another avenue that you may wish to persue is a bolt on mount that would require drilling a couple of holes in the frame. This would allevieate any thoughts about induced heat stress on the spring mounts. could be made with cut and slotted box channel or heavy C channel. Just ideas.
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I considered such an arrangement, and subsequently decided against it. If I were to make an attachment at the framerail, the rod structure itself would become too expensive to build (people won't buy it). I've also heard of some ladder-bar attachments having pulled themselves THROUGH the frame, ripping it ... and while a sandwiched configuration would suffice, I just did not wish to risk any damage to the frame.
My problem is I cannot determine with 100% certainty what grade of steel the forward spring perch is made from. It might be plain old stamped carbon (mild) steel, then again, it might not. So with my preference to be safe versus sorry, I am going to treat the perch material as if it's a high-yield (HY) steel. After paint & debris is ground away from the joint, and the tab-weldment is positioned, small tackwelds could be made when fitting the parts cold ... especially if using a MIG or TIG welder ... then after the leaf springs are lowered out of the way, the entire weld area will need to be pre-heated to 200-degrees Fahrenheit before the final welding commences.
I welcome any comments and suggestions you may offer. Thanks in advance |
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LANDYOT
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• Subscriber since 11/23/2003 |
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• Newport News, VA, USA |
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• Registered on 7/15/2003 |
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• 1,110 posts |
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Posted:11/10/2005 16:56 |
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| Quote: | | My problem is I cannot determine with 100% certainty what grade of steel the forward spring perch is made from. It might be plain old stamped carbon (mild) steel, then again, it might not. So with my preference to be safe versus sorry, I am going to treat the perch material as if it's a high-yield (HY) steel. |
I called my favorite Ford dealer today, and spoke with the manager in the "frame shop" section of their body shop. I learned that the spring perch itself (the stamping that's riveted to the side of the frame rail) is plain ol' mild steel. This will make welding much easier, and less costly, because it does not have to be treated like an exotic high-yield steel ... it will not require pre-heating to avoid heat-shock. |
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KevinsOffroad
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• Phoenix, AZ, USA |
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• Registered on 5/15/2005 |
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• 38 posts |
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Posted:12/6/2005 21:42 |
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I'd be up for a set of weld-on ones. Might it be easier to just weld a "control arm mount" style pair of tabs to the axle tube (like we have on our coil spring Jeeps) that you could bolt an arm to and run it to a mount on the inboard side of the frame rail? I've not even been under there to consider the geometry...but you're the spring-wrap guy...just thought I'd toss another thought your way (albeit maybe not a very good one).
Thanks,
Kevin
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LANDYOT
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• Subscriber since 11/23/2003 |
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• Newport News, VA, USA |
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• Registered on 7/15/2003 |
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• 1,110 posts |
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Posted:12/7/2005 15:24 |
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| Quote: | | I'd be up for a set of weld-on ones. |
Good! Thanks for the input. With the little bit of interst shown so far, it may be worth my while to build a few of these when I build mine.
| Quote: | | Might it be easier to just weld a "control arm mount" style pair of tabs to the axle tube (like we have on our coil spring Jeeps) that you could bolt an arm to and run it to a mount on the inboard side of the frame rail? |
I thought through a lot of options for axle attachment, and settled on the clamp-around style I'm using now. First, the rear bushings need to allow the axle to articulate, and that's why their axial centerline is longitudinal (the forward bushings axial centerline is transverse). Second, I wanted to avoid structural welding to the axle tube itself in case someone set the gear oil on fire inside the tube while welding. I realize the oxygen should be depleted rather quickly once a flame ignites, and that the flame should be short-lived, but setting someone's Excursion on fire is not on my "things to do" list. I just wanted to avoid that possibility altogether, and it was something I felt I should do. |
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mopaulin
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• Nova, OH, USA |
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• Registered on 12/13/2005 |
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• 1 post |
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Posted:12/13/2005 08:59 |
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I'd like to get on your list for a bolt on set of radius rods. I've got a 2000 Excursion 4x4 v10 engine. Just pu 2375 miles on it travelling from Ohio to Texas to WI and home. Almost lost control of it about a dozen times. Really pisses me off that Ford would design something this bad.
Mopaulin |
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