FordExcursions.com Forums
jeff2011
 |
|
• Twentynine Palms, CA, USA |
|
• Registered on 9/7/2009 |
|
• 5 posts |
|
|
|
 Posted:3/30/2013 09:21 |
|
|
I’ve been looking into possibly adding a tuner for my ’04 Excursion. I’m interested in recommendations from other users who have experience with these products. My main goal is to increase my fuel efficiency/save money. I do not tow frequently. Our Excursion is used for carting around the family.
A product called the Triple Dog GT Diesel Gauge/Tuner (40420), made by Bully Dog, was recommended to me.
I have a few questions:
1. Is it a good product?
2. If not, is there another product/brand that is better? (or are diesel tuners not recommend period)?
3. What are the risks associated with using a diesel tuner? Engine damage? Transmission damage?
4. Does the install/settings initialization have to be completed every time before driving? Or can settings be saved?
5. Is a Banks system a better product?
6. Do I need to install an enhanced filter kit (e.g. K&N) as well?
7. I’ve read the Triple Dog won’t work if the DPF (diesel particulate filter) has been removed. Is this true?
8. Is there a difference between a tuner and a “chip”? Or are these terms used interchangeably?
Thank you!
jeff2011
|
|
MountainWestDiesel
 |
|
• Mountain West, WY, USA |
|
• Registered on 2/25/2011 |
|
• 95 posts |
|
|
|
|
Posted:3/30/2013 10:04 |
|
|
Jeff,
A chip / tuner or combination of both, are not going to give you the ability to increase your fuel economy to its fullest.
A diesel needs to take in cool air, process that cool air, then exhale the exhaust in the most efficient manner. The factory stuff just isn't the best, and 6.0L PSD were a good engine, that were rushed into production too fast, so they have their "isms".
I run a Banks Power Big Hoss Bundle w/ torque converter in my rig. (see my gallery) Banks provides a package customized to fit your make, model, year and engine. For you... Look for the Banks PowerPack System. This comes with better air cleaner, High Ram Air intake, intercooler to cool the air coming in, and a large exhaust system to expell it all. It also comes with a tuner and a an economical chip, that you can adjust, as well as monitor any engine function in real time.
http://bankspower.com/products/show/108/35
My rig is lifted, and I tow a Harley Rocker thru the mountains of Wyoming, so I needed a torque converter, and I increased my gear size to match the bigger tires. So I have different needs. that being said, Banks systems are built to add to your stock vehicle, without compromizing your engine's safety and integrity. I am happy with my system. If you plan on looking for fuel savings, you cannot beat his PowerPack System. It has everything required for fuel efficiency.
Check out my rig... Feel free to ask any further questions...
Mountain West Diesel
 |
|
jeff2011
|
|
• Twentynine Palms, CA, USA |
|
• Registered on 9/7/2009 |
|
• 5 posts |
|
|
|
|
Posted:3/30/2013 11:22 |
|
|
Mountain West Diesel,
Thanks for the reply. I looked at the bundle you recommended and it looks great. It's a great deal over my budget though. It looks like the bundle costs in excess of $3k (before install). I'm looking for an upgrade that is in the $500-$750 range.
Is it an all or nothing situation? Do you think I could get modest (say 20% improvement) fuel efficiency gains with just a chip/tuner?
If so, which would you recommend?
What is the difference between a chip and a tuner anyway? Do you need both?
I appreciate your comments.
Jeff |
|
MountainWestDiesel
|
|
• Mountain West, WY, USA |
|
• Registered on 2/25/2011 |
|
• 95 posts |
|
|
|
|
Posted:3/30/2013 11:50 |
|
|
Jeff,
You can actually purchase the package, bit by bit. That is in fact how I did it.
As for the tuner / chip... the tuner adjusts the chip, reference fuel flow.
A tune is just that. You plug it in to your vehicle, and the tune is programmed in, and you are stuck with it.
As for 20% increase w/ just a chip / tuner combo or just a tune... I would say that is a possibility, depending on terrain driven and how heavy one's foot is.
Thoroughbred diesel offers the Banks tuner and a switch (6 settings) for your application for $715. The part numbers can be found at:
TUNER & SWITCH:
http://bankspower.com/products/show/316/35
A straight Banks PROGRAMMER can be had on Thoroughbred diesel's website for $370. The part number can be founda at:
PROGRAMMER:
http://bankspower.com/products/show/392/35
You can, over time, add air intake, intercooler etc as your finances see fit... but just the programmer is your best course of action. You can always change tunes, in the event you want / need to tow something.
Chris
|
|
jeff2011
|
|
• Twentynine Palms, CA, USA |
|
• Registered on 9/7/2009 |
|
• 5 posts |
|
|
|
|
Posted:3/30/2013 13:39 |
|
|
Chris,
Thanks!
Enjoyed the pictures of your truck; looks great!
Jeff |
|
aklim
 |
|
• Hartford, WI, USA |
|
• Registered on 2/20/2006 |
|
• 133 posts |
|
|
|
|
Posted:3/30/2013 22:32 |
|
|
| Quote: | I’ve been looking into possibly adding a tuner for my ’04 Excursion. I’m interested in recommendations from other users who have experience with these products. My main goal is to increase my fuel efficiency/save money. I do not tow frequently. Our Excursion is used for carting around the family.
A product called the Triple Dog GT Diesel Gauge/Tuner (40420), made by Bully Dog, was recommended to me.
I have a few questions:
1. Is it a good product?
2. If not, is there another product/brand that is better? (or are diesel tuners not recommend period)?
3. What are the risks associated with using a diesel tuner? Engine damage? Transmission damage?
4. Does the install/settings initialization have to be completed every time before driving? Or can settings be saved?
5. Is a Banks system a better product?
6. Do I need to install an enhanced filter kit (e.g. K&N) as well?
7. I’ve read the Triple Dog won’t work if the DPF (diesel particulate filter) has been removed. Is this true?
8. Is there a difference between a tuner and a “chip”? Or are these terms used interchangeably?
Thank you!
jeff2011
|
1. Define good. If all you want is plug and it might do something, sure. There is no way that a properly dyno tuned vehicle loses out to a canned tune. Do you buy a suit made for an average sized 30 white male?
2. There are many tuners out there. Like I said, best is a dyno tune. 2nd best would be tuned by an experienced tuner for your application. Finally we have "one size fits all".
3. If improperly done, all of the above. Hence you need someone reputable who has tuned it.
4. Some of them are made to fit into a handheld unit, with say 3 tunes. Those you have to load and reload. I have a chip that can hold up to 16 tunes that can be switched on the fly.
5. Banks is overpriced and you have to use his system. You cannot mix and match. This is per their tech support. So if you want to use his junk and then change your injectors to single shots, no way. Add say a 2nd oil pump? Sure but the system won't recognize it. However, the stickers are widely recognized as giving you 20 HP or better. Once you go down that road, you are pretty stuck.
01 Excursion. Gauges with AIH Delete, AIS Air Filter system, CCV Mod, 4' MBRP, BTS Trans, 6.0L Trans Cooler and Intercooler, DP-Tuner F6 chip, ITP In Tank Mod and Boost Annihilator, Diesel Innovation's Regulated Fuel kit, BTS Big Oil system, GTP38R Turbo with 1.15 A/R housing and BDP Stage II AC injectors. Bilstein Shocks with U code front and A code Rear. Billet thermostat housing |
|
aklim
|
|
• Hartford, WI, USA |
|
• Registered on 2/20/2006 |
|
• 133 posts |
|
|
|
|
Posted:3/30/2013 23:00 |
|
|
| Quote: | Thanks for the reply. I looked at the bundle you recommended and it looks great. It's a great deal over my budget though. It looks like the bundle costs in excess of $3k (before install). I'm looking for an upgrade that is in the $500-$750 range.
Is it an all or nothing situation? Do you think I could get modest (say 20% improvement) fuel efficiency gains with just a chip/tuner?
What is the difference between a chip and a tuner anyway? Do you need both? |
If you are perfectly stock, I'd do an exhaust first. Then change your valve body then do say an ECM flash. That would be within your range unless you wanted say 304 Stainless Steel exhaust. I don't know where you live. Do they have a lot of salt? I wouldn't use the cheaper material because I live in a salt state where they salt like it is going out of style. If you get a VB, you can have them adjust it for what you are using it for. Then if you get the ECM flashed with one custom tune, you can specify what you want.
No but you can pay more for less gain. As to 20%, I don't know about that being a modest gain. On a 15 mpg truck, that is about 3 mpg. To get that, it would be very difficult without drastic changes in drive style. You'd have to drive like you have an egg on your pedals.
If you are talking of someone loading several tunes on a box that you download, you have the few you have. Shut down and reload, I think. For the chips, you can get 6-16 tunes depending on what you want. These can be changed on the fly. I wouldn't do both.
Below are the recommend people.
Valve Body: www.brianstruckshop.com is what I would recommend. When, not if, your trans breaks, he will give you credit for the VB towards his transmissions. 2 year warranty. You break it, he pays to ship it back and fixes it free. Outside that, you pay for shipping and it is fixed free. Many people have done that. After all, Dockboy on another forum pulls sleds or something like that. 6 breaks in 8 years. Once he had to pay because the rod broke the block and the case. Other times, it was free. Lifetime warranty and a great guy as referenced by customers on other forums. Hell, he even walked me thru changing the shift lever ON THE PHONE WHILE I WAS WORKING ON which had nothing to do with his trans. The VB will adjust your shift and make it firm, NOT harsh. Improves longevity. About $125, IIRC. Problem with Brian is that he is more old fashioned and you have to call and talk to his wife or his secretary to order your VB. Years ago, when I did, he sent me the VB that was set up for me. There was a plate and he'd tell me which one to drill out if I wanted it to shift firmer for which gear. The way he set it up, I didn't need to drill. Drop pan and install. Fill fluid and go. With the Banks stuff, I think you are going to have to use his stuff and buy a separate unit to control it and it would cost more money.
Single Tune: www.dp-tuner.com would be good. He can send you one of his core PCM units with the tune set up. You install it and drive it for a few days and if you like it, you send him your old PCM. If you don't, send him back his PCM and you are at worst, out shipping. If you think the Banks tuner or whatever it is called can be adjusted to your spec, you would be wrong. IIRC, it is about $60. Go on this site and read up all his stuff. Later on, you might want to get his F6 tuner. So say you change a few things or want it to run differently, you would tell Jody and he'd tweak the tune, email it to you and you install it without removing your ECM. Or you can "try before you buy". He'd send you a tune and you download it. You have 10 cycles and then it gets locked out. If you like it, pay for it and he sends you an unlock code.
01 Excursion. Gauges with AIH Delete, AIS Air Filter system, CCV Mod, 4' MBRP, BTS Trans, 6.0L Trans Cooler and Intercooler, DP-Tuner F6 chip, ITP In Tank Mod and Boost Annihilator, Diesel Innovation's Regulated Fuel kit, BTS Big Oil system, GTP38R Turbo with 1.15 A/R housing and BDP Stage II AC injectors. Bilstein Shocks with U code front and A code Rear. Billet thermostat housing |
|
MountainWestDiesel
|
|
• Mountain West, WY, USA |
|
• Registered on 2/25/2011 |
|
• 95 posts |
|
|
|
|
Posted:3/30/2013 23:06 |
|
|
Jeff,
This post (aklim) is a typical Banks Hater you will see here. Banks is world renowned, these other newbys companies aren't. When the Navy Seals needed a fast attack boat, they came to Gale Banks for the diesel motor to power the boat. When the U.S. Army needed to plus up the power in their up-armored HMVEEs, they came to Banks Power.
Banks has decades of experience. His systems are made to enhance your diesel, without harming the stock parts. Yes, if you want to tow sleds, or race your diesel, you will need larger injectors and turbos, along with headstuds and a host of other equipment. You are looking for economy, aklim is not even on the same page. The beauty of Banks, you don't have to mix and match systems from numerous retailers. aklim is running statge II injectors, which means he wants to have a really fast diesel. This means he has to have a hotter than normal tune, a larger turbo, and a host of other systems to justify pushing more fuel into his Ex...
Dyno tunes are expensive. aklim is off the mark on your desires / spending limits. aklim is the guy you see on the road with 50 stickers on his back windshield, so you can sort thru the assortment of mix and match after-market systems installed in his Ex, and be impressed by his dedication to "go with the flow" of the coolest stuff to date in Diesel Workld magazine
Best of all. If you ever go to re-sell your diesel, I would bet dollars to donuts that having a Banks Power System, such as the one I installed, will result in a higher re-sale than the mix and match after market items & window stickers you'll see on the guys who are keeping up with the Joneses in Diesel World magazine.
I do not race my rig,and niether do you, so posts from people like this, are of no use to you my friend.
Chris
|
|
aklim
|
|
• Hartford, WI, USA |
|
• Registered on 2/20/2006 |
|
• 133 posts |
|
|
|
|
Posted:3/30/2013 23:19 |
|
|
| Quote: | Jeff,
This post (aklim) is a typical Banks Hater you will see here. Banks is world renowned, these other newbys companies aren't. When the Navy Seals needed a fast attack boat, they came to Gale Banks for the diesel motor to power the boat. When the U.S. Army needed to plus up the power in their up-armored HMVEEs, they came to Banks Power.
Banks has decades of experience. His systems are made to enhance your diesel, without harming the stock parts. Yes, if you want to tow sleds, or race your diesel, you will need larger injectors and turbos, along with headstuds and a host of other equipment. You are looking for economy, aklim is not even on the same page. The beauty of Banks, you don't have to mix and match systems from numerous retailers. aklim is running statge II injectors, which means he wants to have a really fast diesel. This means he has to have a hotter than normal tune, a larger turbo, and a host of other systems to justify pushing more fuel into his Ex...
Dyno tunes are expensive. aklim is off the mark on your desires / spending limits. aklim is the guy you see on the road with 50 stickers on his back windshield, so you can sort thru the assortment of mix and match after-market systems installed in his Ex, and be impressed by his dedication to "go with the flow" of the coolest stuff to date in Diesel Workld magazine
Best of all. If you ever go to re-sell your diesel, I would bet dollars to donuts that having a Banks Power System, such as the one I installed, will result in a higher re-sale than the mix and match after market items & window stickers you'll see on the guys who are keeping up with the Joneses in Diesel World magazine.
I do not race my rig,and niether do you, so posts from people like this, are of no use to you my friend.
Chris
|
Then go onto other forums and see how well regarded his products are. Tell me about his Six Gun tuner for the 7.3. Tell me it is more than an ICP fooler. Navy Seals and US Army have DEEP pockets. They can overpay for their stuff all day long.
True. You don't have to mix and match because YOU CANNOT. Tell me I'm wrong.
Nothing good is cheap and as mentioned, you can do a dyno tune which is the best, argue that if you want or a custom tune which is done to your specs and isn't as good but better than a canned tune like what you and Banks offer. . And no, I have no stickers so try again.
I'd concede that one to you. One look at the stickers and the ricers and their ilk will be drooling. Never mind that while his R&D might be good, little is mentioned of his products EXCEPT those peddling it.
Oh, I don't race my rig either. Nice try though.It has never seen a track. I don't like to overpay like the US Govt for products that lock me into their own products. I like to be able to mix and match and change it to suit ME. When you pay for my stuff, you get to say what it should be. Till then, it does what I want it to do. I, not YOU.
01 Excursion. Gauges with AIH Delete, AIS Air Filter system, CCV Mod, 4' MBRP, BTS Trans, 6.0L Trans Cooler and Intercooler, DP-Tuner F6 chip, ITP In Tank Mod and Boost Annihilator, Diesel Innovation's Regulated Fuel kit, BTS Big Oil system, GTP38R Turbo with 1.15 A/R housing and BDP Stage II AC injectors. Bilstein Shocks with U code front and A code Rear. Billet thermostat housing |
|
MountainWestDiesel
|
|
• Mountain West, WY, USA |
|
• Registered on 2/25/2011 |
|
• 95 posts |
|
|
|
|
Posted:3/30/2013 23:33 |
|
|
aklim,
If you would read Jeff's post, you would see he has a max of $750 to use. Yes, the Navy & Army have deep pockets, but they are not stupid, they go to the man who peddles more than chips or tunes. They go to the man who has the best reputation in the diesel world, and designed engines to match the customer's demands. NO ONE ELSE DOES THAT !
You are comparing apples to oranges. Banks systems ARE NOT DESIGNED for anything more than stock applications. You, like too many others on these forums, have the inability to comprehend that, when purchasing your after market items. Banks tells you up front, that their systems are for STOCK APPLICATIONS. So, level II injectors, larger turbos and hotter tunes do not work with their systems. I guess I should blame English teachers for people not understanding the term stock, when referencing to automobiles. Please pass that note on to the other forums you surf.
I have a Banks Big Hoss Bundle, w/ Banks torque converter. I do not peddle items for Banks, but I am 100% satisfied with mine. It is EXACTLY what was looking for. If I want to race my rig, I will no doubt look for bigger injectors, dual turbos, head studs, hotter tunes and the like. BUT PLEASE, focus on Jeff's question, and his left and right limits in terms of wants and finances. It makes these forums more usefull for those seeking a remedy to their problems / questions.
Chris
|
|
|
|
