E. Long
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• Subscriber since 1/1/2001 |
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• Atlanta, GA, USA |
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• Registered on 1/23/2001 |
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• 2,229 posts |
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 Posted:12/7/2004 22:37 |
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| Quote: | I will also say that I did in fact go back and read this entire thread from post #1.
While my info might have been confusing to J-D, I had my wife who knows NOTHING of the automotive world read my postings, and she seemed to understand what I was saying...
I still find it amazing where someone that "has owned a four wheel drive shop/company for 6 years" cannot understand the simple points I was trying to make.
Furthermore, your experience in this industry was thrown out as some sort of badge of authority.
I would caution you, and tell you that if you are going to stand up, and proclaim your experience in any subject, be ready to look like an ass when proven wrong.
Rather than post that you were confused by my posted info, (to imply that I didnt know what i was talking about) maybe you should have done the research needed to prove or disprove my info. |
Had this post been made prior to J-Douglas clearing the air, I would look at it a little differently. However, this is simply mean-spirited. He did come clean in his previous post and admitted this was not at all the tone he intended to portray (the badge of authority). End of story, as far as I'm concerned.
| Quote: | | Tell you what, lets just drop it...Have a nice day. |
Yes, let's not beat a dead horse.  
-Eric
'67 Galaxie 500 - 390 FE, .030" over, FE to AOD adapter, disc brake conversion. The Daily Driver.
'00 Excursion - 7.3L PSD, LANDYOT Gen-II Radius Rods, Factory Tech Valve Body, 200K+ miles and going |
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J-Douglas
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• San Antonio, TX, USA |
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• Registered on 3/18/2004 |
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• 89 posts |
• 1
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Posted:12/7/2004 23:11 |
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I am interested in why you have negative feelings towards ProComp?
Have your customers had bad experiences with Pro Comp lifts on the Excursion?
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Disclaimer: Let me start by saying that I do NOT claim to be an expert. But, perhaps it may be safe to assume that since the 4wd business has been my full-time job for so long, I "may" have slightly more experience. However, this does NOT mean I am exclusively right. Far from it. I only say the things I have personally experienced.
My experience with ProComp is 75% Jeep-related, and 25% Fords and Chevy's. Within the Jeep community, ProComp's stage 1 and stage 2 is not only inferior, but downright dangerous. ProComp is MUCH better on Ford's (thankfully). My concerns about ProComp's Superduty/Excursion lift:
1) ProComp uses fewer leaf's (is it leaf's or leaves?) in their spring pack than a few other manufacturers (they use 4 leaf's, I believe). Granted, it is a MUCH better ride than the stock's TWO leaf's, but a smooth ride is the result of using multiple, thinner, leaf spring packs. HOWEVER, it's practically impossible to integrate more than 4 leaf's on a 4" suspension lift because the thickness of the spring pack itself would raise the truck more than 4"...... that's WITHOUT considering the arch in the spring itself! What does all this mean? In an ideal world, the BEST possible ride would come from a positive arched, 8-to-10 leaf spring pack. But, a positive arched with that many leaf's would lift the truck around 6" (as seen by Fabtech's spectacular 5.5" setup..... (which is closer to 6.25" in actuality)). Considering the variables, the 4" ProComp lift is really a decent compromise. It offers more leaf's than the stock setup, yet still employs a POSITIVE arch. So, it's the best spring pack setup considering the 4" of play they have to work with. Like I said, though... ideally speaking, it's best to have a spring pack that has more leaf's.
2) ProComp's leaf springs are the only springs I have dealt with that are known to sag. I had ONE Skyjacker lift that sagged over time, but that's it. ProComp's sagging leaf springs are just more common. BDS suspension prevents this problem by making their springs so stiff that they'll jar your teeth loose over rough roads before they ever sag! But, that's not any better than a saggy spring. HOWEVER, I must admit that since ProComp is more inexpensive, you could buy two new front springs a few years down the road and still be ahead! Besides, having your front springs sag an inch or so is not too bad, so it shouldn't cause too much concern.
3) My biggest concern with ProComp's Ford lift is inconsistency. It is a common occurance for their lifts to be different from truck to truck. One guy's 4” lift may give him 3” over stock, while another guy's 4” lift may give him 5” over stock. I KNOW what you're thinking…. It may depend on the weight of each individual truck! True… but, these variances ALSO occur between left/right levelness or front/back levelness of EACH truck. Does this make sense?
I am saying that often, a level, stock truck will go in for a lift, and come out with a TALLER left or right side! OR, in a majority of cases, the front is higher than the rear… even when you install a lift block that LEVELLED the truck before. ProComp lifts just have so much variance within them. I do see that your ProComp lift looks perfectly level in the pictures…. That's good…. It doesn't always turn out that way.
However however however….. let me explain. Even though I would NEVER NEVER install a ProComp product on a Jeep, Chevy, or F-150, and that I am not the biggest ProComp fan…… I am considering the ProComp for my own Excursion. I know, it's ironic since I have griped about ProComp. BUT, there are reasons:
1) My #1 preference is Fabtech. But, in order to get a SUSPENSION lift (not a spring hanger lift), I would have to get their 5.5” lift. I LOVED that lift on my 2000 Excursion, but now I have a very long and heavy travel trailer than requires weight distribution bars. And, I can't get a SAFE drophitch with weight distribution bars over 6” (4” lift + 2” larger tire radius). My 5.5” Fabtech lift gave me about 9” inches of lift (6.25” actual lift + 3” of tire radius lift). I couldn't use my weight distribution bars on my trailer with that much lift. DANGEROUS!
2) My other preference is Skyjacker. They have GREAT leaf springs, but only offer their components in “look at my lift” red. I just can't bear to have red stuff underneath my white Excursion.
3) I can't use an EDGE (Donahoe) 4” or 4.5” hanger lift because I have a full replacement front bumper that will not work with longer hangers. (Besides, I am on a mission to RID myself of the stock front springs. TWO leafs! Last night, I went over a speedbump at Barnes & Noble, and I hit my bumpstops! I stopped and double-checked everything. The Ex was fine, but I was reminded that 3” of suspension travel in the front is NOT cutting it for me!).
All this says that I strongly discourage people from using ProComp for a Jeep, GM, or F-150. But, ProComp's not entirely bad for the Excursion/Superduty. Ever since 4 Wheel Parts bought them out, they have really cut costs and “streamlined” them into an inexpensive, shopping-cart item. For the price, I say they're alright.... I just don't see genuine quality in their product like I see in Donahoe, Fabtech, or Skyjacker. Of course, ProComp is lighter on your wallet, so it's a tough call.
5.5" Fabtech, 37x12.5x17 BFG AllTerrains, 17x9 Helo Maxx 8 Chrome. 6.0 Powerstroke Diesel. |
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birdman127
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• baltimore, MD, USA |
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• Registered on 10/13/2002 |
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• 581 posts |
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Posted:12/8/2004 07:03 |
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Jarrett,
I am looking into BDS springs for myself and have been happy with what I have found so far. I think Super Lift produces new "select series" multi leaf springs for the X also.
I have X code (f-350 snow plow) springs up front with the Edge 2" mini pack up front and really have no complaints up front. The rear are stock F-350 springs w/ a 4" block and Yes count them "2" extra leafs in the rear to get her level. I am weighing my options now as to soften my sled ride. I have a little over 5" over a stock X. A Fabtech adjustable track bar and Edge sway bar links and Bilsteins for a stock f-350 round out the front. The rear has the same shocks and a hellwig sway bar and the "famed" radius rods. The rear is where the problem is.......tight. No travel period. I will be doing changes just after the 1st of the yr.
Moderator
Scott
2000 ltd 6.8 V10*4.30LS*
Lots of mods
check my gallery
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J-Douglas
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• San Antonio, TX, USA |
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• Registered on 3/18/2004 |
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• 89 posts |
• 1
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Posted:12/8/2004 07:49 |
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| Quote: | Jarrett,
I am looking into BDS springs for myself and have been happy with what I have found so far. I think Super Lift produces new "select series" multi leaf springs for the X also.
I have X code (f-350 snow plow) springs up front with the Edge 2" mini pack up front and really have no complaints up front. The rear are stock F-350 springs w/ a 4" block and Yes count them "2" extra leafs in the rear to get her level. I am weighing my options now as to soften my sled ride. I have a little over 5" over a stock X. A Fabtech adjustable track bar and Edge sway bar links and Bilsteins for a stock f-350 round out the front. The rear has the same shocks and a hellwig sway bar and the "famed" radius rods. The rear is where the problem is.......tight. No travel period. I will be doing changes just after the 1st of the yr.
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True... I always forget to mention Superlift. I like Superlift springs. I think they're great. I think you have an AWESOME setup! I am curious if the F-350 rear springs ADD to your X's stiffness.
I am glad you chimed in..... I am REALLY curious about your setup.......
1) Regarding Edge's "mini spring pack". How does that affect your ride? It seems like it would make it stiffer being that it is ADDING leaf's without compromising the spring rate of the stock springs. I am fascinated by them, though. But, I know NOTHING about them.
2) Where did you get your X code springs? I'm not sure if aftermarket distributors will carry an OEM optional spring. (how much $$ are they?)
3) Ouch... TWO add-a-leafs! I bet that's stiff! I occasionally use one add-a-leaf, but I notice a difference in ride. Even though I know how stiff BDS springs are, I promise that BDS springs will be softer than two add-a-leafs!! May I make a suggestion, though? Look into Fabtech's rear spring pack. They have two different arches available, and they ride LIKE A DREAM! I used them before, and I will use them again if I get the chance!!! I can guarantee that they have a FAR better ride than BDS (once again, this is just what I have personally experienced, so I don't want to offend anyone. I could always be wrong). BDS is owned by two of the top guys at TrailMaster Suspension that took off to start their own company. They're "tough cookies" to work with.  I have suggested to them to soften their springs, but suggestions only irritate them. I do like their "no questions asked" FREE replacement warranty. I have had to redeem it for some customers and its great! One customer of mine got into a wreck! He crashed into a drainage ditch. The Jeep was trashed but he sent in the bent springs and I got him some NEW ones.... no questions asked.
Be advised though...... they are stiff!
4) Did you notice that your rear end was stiff BEFORE your Landyot radius rods? Or, did the radius rods stiffen it more.
5) What size tire are you running? Wheel width?
GREAT setup..... I like the "custom" factor instead of one straight suspension system! Look into Fabtech rear springs though. I hope you can address all my questions.... it will help me a LOT!  
5.5" Fabtech, 37x12.5x17 BFG AllTerrains, 17x9 Helo Maxx 8 Chrome. 6.0 Powerstroke Diesel. |
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Joe Lundberg
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• Winchester, TN, USA |
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• Registered on 8/28/2004 |
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• 31 posts |
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Posted:12/8/2004 10:28 |
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| Quote: | Jarrett,
I am looking into BDS springs for myself and have been happy with what I have found so far. I think Super Lift produces new "select series" multi leaf springs for the X also.
I have X code (f-350 snow plow) springs up front with the Edge 2" mini pack up front and really have no complaints up front. The rear are stock F-350 springs w/ a 4" block and Yes count them "2" extra leafs in the rear to get her level. I am weighing my options now as to soften my sled ride. I have a little over 5" over a stock X. A Fabtech adjustable track bar and Edge sway bar links and Bilsteins for a stock f-350 round out the front. The rear has the same shocks and a hellwig sway bar and the "famed" radius rods. The rear is where the problem is.......tight. No travel period. I will be doing changes just after the 1st of the yr.
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J-D
Great insight and information!
Thanks for sharing 
BTW;
I think I mentioned in a different thread how I had to install another 1.5" block in the rear to make my X sit level...Not a huge deal, but I wish PC would have sent the correct block to begin with.
2004 Ford Excursion 4x4 Ltd
1998 BMW M3/ Dinan S3 Supercharged beast
2004 Crownline 225 LPX
My X is for sale: http://www.supermotors.net/clubs/fordexcursions/forums/thid-6148-2004-excursion-4x4-limited-6 |
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jicki mojo
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• dallas, TX, USA |
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• Registered on 11/26/2004 |
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• 28 posts |
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Posted:12/8/2004 10:31 |
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| Quote: | BTW;
I think I mentioned in a different thread how I had to install another 1.5" block in the rear to make my X sit level...Not a huge deal, but I wish PC would have sent the correct block to begin with. |
If you use a super lift 5 in block with the PC 4in front it all comes out level!
00 4x4 psd ex
4in procomp lift
315 75 r16 procomp all terrains
The Green Machine |
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Gen-X
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• Toronto, XX, Canada |
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• Registered on 1/19/2004 |
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• 344 posts |
• 1
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Posted:12/8/2004 10:55 |
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| Quote: | | Quote: | BTW;
I think I mentioned in a different thread how I had to install another 1.5" block in the rear to make my X sit level...Not a huge deal, but I wish PC would have sent the correct block to begin with. |
If you use a super lift 5 in block with the PC 4in front it all comes out level! |
Personally, I don't mind having the rearend higher then the front. I also like the idea of adding spring to stiffen the ride. I did that to a 99 explorer and it handle much better.
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Brian Barnett
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• San Antonio, TX, USA |
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• Registered on 9/6/2004 |
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• 103 posts |
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Posted:12/8/2004 11:20 |
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Ok I know that I am just a little 4X2 but I used the fabtech 6" lift and I noticed that the rear end was way lower then the front. I called fabtech to ask them why they would send me a 3.5" angled rear block with a 6" lift, they said that the lift is for a SD and the rear of the SD is higher then the Ex, so I put in (thanks to Maximum Altitude) 4" SD F350 stock blocks with the fabtech on top of those with the new U bolts, I dont like the sound of it but for the money it did the trick, so far no axel rap and the ride is sooooooo much better then it was stock. I love the fabtech and I just got lucky to have found a guy that had a 4X2 Ex and wanted to go bigger.....good luck for me!
as for the gas mileage going down, you might have overlooked something, if you increses the tire size then the speedometer/trip meter and the onboard computer, are wrong. my ex started out showing that I could run 600+ miles on a tank and now it says 480. this is because the tires turn slower and therefor if you go 100 actual miles it will be less on the tripmeter, so get a GPS and calculate your distince with that and then check the numbers again and you will see that you didnt really lose all that much, maybe 1 mpg. and thats also how you drive it.
I had a friend that put a tuner in his truck and he cam back complaining that the MPG's went way down, I asked how he drove and he said that he has been haulin BUT since the new tuner was installed, I said YOU DUMBA$$ SLOW DOWN!!!! 
It really is all about size!!!!!! |
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jicki mojo
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• dallas, TX, USA |
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• Registered on 11/26/2004 |
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• 28 posts |
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Posted:12/8/2004 11:54 |
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| Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | BTW;
I think I mentioned in a different thread how I had to install another 1.5" block in the rear to make my X sit level...Not a huge deal, but I wish PC would have sent the correct block to begin with. |
If you use a super lift 5 in block with the PC 4in front it all comes out level! |
Personally, I don't mind having the rearend higher then the front. I also like the idea of adding spring to stiffen the ride. I did that to a 99 explorer and it handle much better.
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Th 5in superlift block is to bring the back up to the front without it the truck sat nose high!
00 4x4 psd ex
4in procomp lift
315 75 r16 procomp all terrains
The Green Machine |
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Gen-X
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• Toronto, XX, Canada |
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• Registered on 1/19/2004 |
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• 344 posts |
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Posted:12/8/2004 13:41 |
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[/quote]
Th 5in superlift block is to bring the back up to the front without it the truck sat nose high![/quote]
My 03 sits level or higher in the back end. Has your 00 always rode nose high?
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