FordExcursions.com Forums
LANDYOT
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• Subscriber since 11/23/2003 |
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• Newport News, VA, USA |
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• Registered on 7/15/2003 |
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• 1,110 posts |
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E. Long
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• Subscriber since 1/1/2001 |
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• Atlanta, GA, USA |
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• Registered on 1/23/2001 |
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• 2,229 posts |
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 Posted:7/22/2005 01:24 |
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"The vehicle's poor fuel economy, about 10 miles per gallon, made it the target of environmentalists. The Sierra Club nicknamed it the Ford Valdez after the Exxon tanker that spilled oil in Alaska in 1990.
Dan Becker, director of the Sierra Club's global warming and energy program, welcomed the vehicle's cancellation.
"Now that Ford is out of the dirty-car business, it should put this plant and these people to work building the hybrids that will guarantee Ford's future," Becker said."
It humors me that these people don't realize that the Super Duty line produces the same economy as the Excursion, yet they don't chastise it. Also, 10MPG, what a joke!
-Eric
'67 Galaxie 500 - 390 FE, .030" over, FE to AOD adapter, disc brake conversion. The Daily Driver.
'00 Excursion - 7.3L PSD, LANDYOT Gen-II Radius Rods, Factory Tech Valve Body, 200K+ miles and going |
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LANDYOT
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• Subscriber since 11/23/2003 |
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• Newport News, VA, USA |
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• Registered on 7/15/2003 |
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• 1,110 posts |
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Posted:7/22/2005 15:17 |
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I wrote a letter to the reporter, and said ...
Your reporting of the Sierra Club statements without question makes one very suspicious of your paper’s trustworthiness. Many folks bought the Ford Excursion because of its MPG capabilities. My gasoline V10 gets 12 MPG city, and 15 MPG highway. Friends of mine with diesel Excursions report 20 MPG highway. Add better than average MPG (for a large SUV or full-size truck) with the Excursion’s towing capabilities, and you have a great vehicle for the RV crowd … who typically have extra money to spend on various luxuries.
If your article is typical of the news media around Louisville, I doubt I’ll ever spend any tourist money anywhere near there. More and more folks are tired of a leftist media that reports “some” facts, and fails to report all sides of a story … mostly in a manner that favors the media’s agenda. We the people no longer believe everything you say, and have grown to seriously doubt you. |
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LANDYOT
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• Subscriber since 11/23/2003 |
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• Newport News, VA, USA |
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• Registered on 7/15/2003 |
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• 1,110 posts |
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Posted:7/22/2005 15:18 |
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And I received a reply, albeit a bit lengthy ... and it seems like a "one size fits all" reply that he had to prepare to fight back all of the angst e-mailed to him ...
Thanks for your note Ken,
I understand that the Excursion has a loyal following, but Ford was not selling enough of these SUVs to justify continued production. There was a huge pent-up demand for something in this size in 1999 when it was released, but by the end of 2000, everyone who wanted a huge SUV had one. Sales fell off sharply in 2001, and Ford probably won't break 10,000 units this year.
There is a market for really big SUVs. Chevy Suburban sales are still high enough to keep that vehicle around, although sales have fallen in recent years. But buyers did not respond to Ford's entry in the market. The Excursion was just too big and too truck-like for most SUV buyers. Unlike the Expedition, which rides on the thoroughly-tamed chassis of the F-150 pickup, the Excursion is built in the F-250 commercial truck frame. It has more body lean, stiffer handling and more bounce than smaller SUVs. People found that tough to deal with, and sales dropped.
As the story said, Ford is canceling the vehicle because of poor sales, not because the Sierra Club didn't like it.
As to fuel economy, the 10 mpg figure came from Ford. The Excursion is heavy enough to fall outside of EPA reporting requirements, so there's no government-tested rating for its city/highway mileage. In any case, fuel economy varies from driver to driver based on how often you goose the accelerator and how much of your driving is highway cruising. If you're getting 12-15, you're doing something right. As to the diesel mileage, Ford didn't have a number, but some independent researchers peg it at about 16 mpg. About a year ago, I reported that number and got complaints from some diesel owners who said they don't get nearly that many miles per gallon. Other claimed to get closer to 19.
But to say the Excursion has better-than-average mileage for a large SUV or full-sized truck does not match Ford's numbers or industry listings. Both the F-150 and F-250 outperform the Excursion in fuel economy because they are lighter vehicles. If you eliminate those and talk only about towing vehicles, you're only comparing the Excursion to the 2500 edition of the Suburban. I don't have the mileage stats on that vehicle, so you may be right that there is one full-sized SUV that has better fuel economy that the Excursion.
I would doubt it based on the Excursion's statistics. It is the largest and heaviest SUV on the road (outside of the hand-built exotics or Hummer H1s). That's not a complaint, it's simply a fact of the vehicle. The diesel 4x4, the best selling version, weighs nearly 8,000 pounds. You can't expect good fuel economy out of such a large vehicle. There are a lot of people who don't care about mileage and are willing to buy something that size, but Ford has decided that it's not a big enough group to justify more investments in designs and tooling.
As to your complaints about the Sierra Club, that organization has lobbied against the Excursion for six years. It took at ads against the vehicle in magazines, newspapers and television, it came to Ford's annual meetings to complain about the vehicle and Ford CEO Bill Ford Jr. agreed with what they said and promised to cancel it. When he reversed that decision in 2004, the Sierra Club renewed its attacks on Ford and the vehicle. It's one of the reasons that environmental groups focus more attacks on Ford than on GM, the company that produces the Hummer and Suburban.
That said, I did not make the Sierra Club the focus of the article. In a lengthy piece that focused on local workers and the business market for the Excursion, I dedicated three sentences to the Sierra Club. If I were trying to push an environmental agenda, the story would have hailed the cancellation as a long-awaited success of the environmental group and asked for a "Environmentalists kill gas hog" headline. You also claim that I ran the Sierra Club's comments without question. Dan Becker with the group raised no factual issues that required a challenge. He said he was happy that it was gone and that he hopes Ford will make more hybrids. Had Becker made any factual claims outside of offering his opinion, they would have been questioned and challenged. But he didn't. I was willing to take at face value that Dan Becker is happy that the Excursion will be out of production soon. I believed him when he said that was his opinion.
You imply that I have chosen to report some facts while leaving out others. The main fact of this story, and the reason it ran on the front page of the newspaper, is that Ford lied to this community. I talked with senior officials with the company two months ago about the Excursion. They assured me that if they decided to cancel the SUV, there would be no job cuts. That has been Ford's mantra for the past three years -- "We can sell as many Super Duty trucks as we can produce, so we'll always need more people at KTP."
The issue of why the Excursion was cancelled was a no-brainer. Outside of exotic sports car companies that hand-build every unit, no one can make money on something that sells so few units. The best-case scenario for Excursion fans was to get a small 2006 run finished, but the vehicle had no chance of seeing 2007 because Ford has to redesign the truck line next year to get a new engine that matches new diesel emissions standards.
My job here is to report the news that affects this community, and Ford's decision to cancel the Excursion fits that description. If you read it again, you'll find the story never once claims that the Excursion is a bad vehicle or that buyers who choose them are bad people. I stated that it is selling poorly, that it is the biggest SUV on the road and that it has critics who don't like it. Those are all integral facts into the life of this SUV. To ignore any of them would have meant reporting "some" facts while ignoring others.
Again, thank you for reading the article and commenting on it,
Robert |
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LANDYOT
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• Subscriber since 11/23/2003 |
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• Newport News, VA, USA |
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• Registered on 7/15/2003 |
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• 1,110 posts |
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Posted:7/22/2005 15:20 |
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And I could not resist sending him another bit of info ...
Thank you for taking the time to prepare such a lengthy and informative reply. Having attended a couple Ford stockholders meetings, let me add that even a mere 10,000 units per year equates to $10M (yes, million) annual profit for Ford. Until the recent reintroduction of the Ford GT, the Excursion was their highest money-maker per unit … averaging $10K profit each. During 2000, the Excursions first model year, Ford produced ~3,000 units per month. In following years amid rumors of model cancellation, Ford said it would continue the Excursion if volume fell to 1,000 units per month. Obviously, 10K units annually is less than 12K, and since they reached their lower benchmark, the model is being discontinued. Nonetheless, many stockholders will not be happy about losing $10M annually. |
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JohnBoy
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• DFW, TX, USA |
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• Registered on 9/3/2002 |
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• 972 posts |
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Posted:7/22/2005 16:50 |
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Didn't your momma tell you
"Ya can't argue with ignorance" !!!! 
2005 6.0L 4x4 Eddie Bauer Ex
2003 6.0L 4x4 Limited Ex - traded in (BooHoo )
"The Republicans should back off and let men marry men, women marry women, and legalize abortion. In three generations there would be no Democrats." |
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E. Long
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• Subscriber since 1/1/2001 |
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• Atlanta, GA, USA |
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• Registered on 1/23/2001 |
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• 2,229 posts |
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Posted:7/22/2005 17:42 |
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The article makes it sounds like the Excursion was cancelled as a result of the Sierra club's criticism of the Excursion. The writer's comments to LANDYOT are much better when he speaks of the numbers of sales, etc. My takeaway from the article is that this was a victory for environmentalists along with a stab at Ford for being in the "dirty-car business." The same drivetrain is still offered in the F250/350 which are not going away.
-Eric
'67 Galaxie 500 - 390 FE, .030" over, FE to AOD adapter, disc brake conversion. The Daily Driver.
'00 Excursion - 7.3L PSD, LANDYOT Gen-II Radius Rods, Factory Tech Valve Body, 200K+ miles and going |
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David Rush
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• Greenville, SC, USA |
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• Registered on 4/11/2004 |
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• 233 posts |
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 Posted:7/22/2005 23:12 |
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Hey Ken--you inspired me! I wrote Mr Schoenberger to express my displeasure...guess I had to much caffiene.
Dear Mr Schoenberger:
As a very happy and satisfied owner of a Ford Excursion, I read your article with much dismay that Ford has decided to drop it's production. I suppose these types of things are reflective of business in the world today and the fact that trial by media usually discourages anyone in any position of authority of saying anything which may not be taken as favorable.
I certainly understand the tone of your article initially as one of laying out facts in a dispassionate manner. I must commend you in that I rarely see 3 sentences of facts much less three paragraphs. However, I take issue when you start bashing the Excursion. You can respond that you are simply stating MPG figures, weight etc, etc. but your tone denotes a definite hostility toward the vehicle. There was no need for your including ANY comments from the "Sierra Club" regarding a production layoff. Your insertion of these remarks and especially the "dirty car business" conveys your opinions to not be objective or if not- a desire to spark more controversy or negativity...senasationalism, if you will.
In reality, all our observations are all subjective. What we base our feelings, emotions, morals, etc. comes from our human experience over a life time. However, I am saddened that most news articles, reports, etc are unable to present much factual content without the spin. Hoping for balanced reporting is a delusional thought I conjured up somewhere in a dream. If you doubt that your reporting of this was balanced...please show me where you said ANYTHING positive about the Excursion. The fact is that there would not have been a number of jobs in Louisville in the first place had it not been for the Excursion...yet it gets bad mouthed for not being a poster child of Sierra Club virtues. On one hand, there are those who are angry about job cuts--because the Excursion is being cut and then we have the militant arm of the Sierra Club about to soil themselves with it's demise. All in all, your article is conflicted to say the least.
If you want to present a article of merit--why don't you ask the Sierra Club why pickup trucks are never the recipent of there much coveted attention. Why don't you ask how many Sierra Club members drive pickup trucks and SUV's.How many Sierra Club members fly on airlines, or own motor boats, or have more tha one vehicle? Ask why the Excursion got blasted with such a higher profile campaign than the Hummer did....after all, an Excursion provides for moving people and cargo. What can you pack in a Hummer. Ever been in one??? Nice large windows to see out of aren't they??
Oh and hybrids---well let's see--great mpg but how many surviveable traffic accidents will they have against--shall we say ---eighteen wheelers or a hill of grass for that matter??? How many hybrids do you have to drive to move the same amount of people and cargo that the Excursion does?? I would speculate probably 4--maybe three but with a cargo issue--I'm thinking 4. It's an interesting calculation to look at MPG efficiency per pound of one large vehicle against several smaller ones to do the same job.Can't tow much with a hybrid--too light and too unstable. ANd then there is the issue of eighteen wheelers again---I bet there are a hell of a lot more semi's on the road than Excursions. I get 12 mpg around town and 16mpg on the road in my V10 Excursion---what do all those trucks get???? I am sure trains would be much better but we have a society and economy based upon it's mobility and flexibility. Our society expects to get what it wants when it wants it so the trucks must roll. With this being the case, I submit that the greatest good to our world, our country and our air would be for the Sierra Club to campaign againt the blatant capitalism and freedoms present in our country (Sorry- I forgot---they do!). After all, if we can't be responsible enough in choosing an SUV, then we should surely be deprived of our freedom to choose...if you carry out Sierra Club logic to it's conclusion.
My point in depicting this somewhat ridiculous scenario is that in many ways, it is not that ridiculous. I hope that you and others may one day more carefully consider content over sensationalism, discern true fact from selfishly motivated agendas, and realize that your articles bear great weight in that they contribute to shaping public opinion. We have a society that wants everything now and if they don't get it, it's your fault. The Sierra Club seems to have fallen into that lane. We have dirty air and it's the Excursion's fault--it's ridiculous when you really look at it.
Anyway, I hope in the future you may qualify your remarks in a more discriminating manner before including comments from some group that presents itself on information not founded in fact. Maybe if you ask more probing questions, you may find the real underlying drive behind many things.
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LANDYOT
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• Subscriber since 11/23/2003 |
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• Newport News, VA, USA |
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• Registered on 7/15/2003 |
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• 1,110 posts |
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Posted:7/23/2005 15:33 |
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David - Well done! I am impressed with your writing.  |
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Scott Stover
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• Fayetteville, NC, USA |
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• Registered on 4/16/2004 |
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• 354 posts |
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Posted:7/24/2005 00:45 |
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Very Sad./.....
Scott
2000 X 4x4 V-10 4.3 LS
K&N
Gibson Catback
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