birdman127
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• baltimore, MD, USA |
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• Registered on 10/13/2002 |
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• 581 posts |
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 Posted:9/8/2004 13:17 |
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| Quote: | I know the Helwig is slightly bigger in Dia. by the spec but some have said it is less than the 1.25. BTW the 30MM bar cost me less than $50.00 at the dealer and it will bolt right on.
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Rear Helwig is 36mm Bruce!! And around 129 bucks complete.
Moderator
Scott
2000 ltd 6.8 V10*4.30LS*
Lots of mods
check my gallery
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Bruce1954
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• Asheville, NC, USA |
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• Registered on 1/6/2002 |
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• 4 posts |
• 1
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Posted:9/8/2004 15:15 |
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| Quote: | | [Helwig is 36mm Bruce!! And around 129 bucks complete. |
Helwig Front or Rear??
As I understand it the Helwig Front is "Sold As" 1-1/2" and the rear is 1-1/4" for the Excursion I could be wrong or is this Old Data???
From Hellwig site
"'00-03 Excursion Front 7640 1-1/2" Rear 7643 1-1/4"
The Ford Front Factory bar is 36 MM and the Rears are as Far as I know--->
Rear ford numbers are
some 250s 18MM
Some Excursions 24MM
Some 350s 30MM
Also it was reported on another site that the Helwig rear for the excursion was under 1.25 but I have never had any one give a measurment with a pair of Dial Calapers or the like to know for sure.
Ford 30MM is 1.18 or 1 3/16 aprox.
Bruce
2002 X PSD Limited Ult.Limited slip,rear VCP Ent. "V" Code Front Springs, Rancho RSXs on Front,9000s @ 2/9 on rear. Revised (Timbren) Bump stops, Ford 30mm Rear Bar,AFE Intake,Tank and Pre-Pump Mods,3 SPA Dual Gauges W/home grown Turbo saver,SCMT Dual, 60HP installed, Ultra-Start 2250 Alarm/Remote Start BridgeStone 285/75-16AT(D range) Revos, Tekonsha Prodigy Controller, and Catch All linners |
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dddenio
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• Detroit Lakes, MN, USA |
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• Registered on 8/18/2004 |
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• 41 posts |
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Posted:9/8/2004 20:21 |
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Bruce1954,
Nice seeing you over here at this site as well! I understand your stance with 18mm vs. 30mm swaybar.
My rear factory Swaybar measures 1 3/16th".
You said,
"Dennis
It may well fit however if you have a ford 18MM bar on your 250 Why not just replace it with the Ford 30MM bar used on some 350s?
I know that the mounts are further out on the Helwig but it is the attaching point at the frame that counts the most and they are the same. Putting the ford bar on would be a quick replacement since it uses all the same mounts and comes with the new bushings. I have a 30MM ford bar on my Excursion and have driven an Excursion with a helwig and could not tell the difference as far as sway.. I know the Helwig is slightly bigger in Dia. by the spec but some have said it is less than the 1.25. BTW the 30MM bar cost me less than $50.00 at the dealer and it will bolt right on."
I agree with the wider the stance (attaching point)of the swaybar ends the stronger, but the stock swaybar mounts to the rear axle on each side of the pig (center of axle) vs. the Hellwig mounts at a wider point "stance" on the axle at the shock mounts. Thus the Hellwig has more leverage to control sway "body roll" & a stiffer bar.
The Hellwig is said to be a stiffer composition as well compared to stock. I hate the loose body roll of my F250 CC & will be changing out the front or rear swaybars on it. My X doesn't rock "body roll" with the Hellwig. The F250 won't either once I'm done with it. It's just a matter of how much money for trial & error.
Thanks,
Dennis
2002 7.3L Excursion 4x4, FTVB, MBRP 4" SS Exhaust, Rancho 9000X shocks, "V" code Front Springs & "B" Code Rear Springs, Ride Rite AirBags, Rear Hellwig Swaybar, Cut Front BumpStops, DieselSite Ext Trans Filter Kit - Coolant Filter Kit & 203 stat, "Scotpart" mod, "Hutched & Pooned", "LandYot" Radius Rods
2001 7.3L F250 CC SB 4x4 with banks monster SS 4", pillar guages, BTS Trans, Cale tuned 6 pos chip, 6oh Trans Cooler, Rancho 9,000X Shocks, DieselSite - Coolant Filter Kit & 203 stat. "Sound Deadend the Cab"
2001 7.3L F350 CC LB 4x4 5" Exhaust, pillar guages, BTS Trans, US Gear Underdrive, DP 6 pos chip, V10 Trans Cooler, DieselSite - Coolant Filter Kit, Evans Coolant, 203 stat, DI reg Fuel Return, GT38R BB Turbo, AFE 2 Intake, Banks Intercooler, Air Rite Bags, |
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Bruce1954
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• Asheville, NC, USA |
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• Registered on 1/6/2002 |
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• 4 posts |
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Posted:9/9/2004 09:00 |
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Dennis
Let us know how it comes out, You have a 30MM bar now so that is it as far as OE goes
You are correct the the only thing you would be changing is the attaching point on the axle since the Dia of the bars are very close. Let us know the exact Dia of the Hellwig if you can.
Also I have done extensive posting on the differeces in steel on the other site and the engineering behind it.
The torsional stiffness of steel does not change only it's ability to return to the original shape, so even if it is a different Alloy it will not change the stiffnes. THe mounting however may, let us know.
Also the arm length of the Hellwig Vs the Ford would have a more profound effect on the stiffness than the mount, any one know if there is a length difference??
2002 X PSD Limited Ult.Limited slip,rear VCP Ent. "V" Code Front Springs, Rancho RSXs on Front,9000s @ 2/9 on rear. Revised (Timbren) Bump stops, Ford 30mm Rear Bar,AFE Intake,Tank and Pre-Pump Mods,3 SPA Dual Gauges W/home grown Turbo saver,SCMT Dual, 60HP installed, Ultra-Start 2250 Alarm/Remote Start BridgeStone 285/75-16AT(D range) Revos, Tekonsha Prodigy Controller, and Catch All linners |
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dddenio
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• Detroit Lakes, MN, USA |
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• Registered on 8/18/2004 |
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• 41 posts |
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Posted:9/9/2004 18:21 |
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Bruce 1954,
Ok, The Hellwig is 13" x 39" x 36" Diameter is 1 1/4"
OEM 30mm 13 1/2" x 40" x 39" Diameter is 1 3/16th
First Measurement is Length of Bar, Arm-(front to back) (link to axle)
2nd Measurement is Width at Swaybar Links (front)
3rd Measurement is Width at Axle (rear - where swaybar bends 90 degrees)
OEM is longer overall which would give it more length / leverage to flex overall.
When truck is rocked side to side, swaybar moves up and down where the Hellwig would be mounted solid to the shock mounts. Making a Hellwig type of mount (on shock mounts) would likely improve OEM swaybars ability to reduce sway.
Awhile back, I asked if doing this would make a difference, a few people chimed in that the stock swaybar is a flimsy POS and the Hellwig was much more rigid. Now you are saying the only difference between swaybars is the diameter, the metal stiffness / rigidity would be the same?
I believe I could make Hellwig style mounts quite a bit cheaper than a new Hellwig. 
Dennis
2002 7.3L Excursion 4x4, FTVB, MBRP 4" SS Exhaust, Rancho 9000X shocks, "V" code Front Springs & "B" Code Rear Springs, Ride Rite AirBags, Rear Hellwig Swaybar, Cut Front BumpStops, DieselSite Ext Trans Filter Kit - Coolant Filter Kit & 203 stat, "Scotpart" mod, "Hutched & Pooned", "LandYot" Radius Rods
2001 7.3L F250 CC SB 4x4 with banks monster SS 4", pillar guages, BTS Trans, Cale tuned 6 pos chip, 6oh Trans Cooler, Rancho 9,000X Shocks, DieselSite - Coolant Filter Kit & 203 stat. "Sound Deadend the Cab"
2001 7.3L F350 CC LB 4x4 5" Exhaust, pillar guages, BTS Trans, US Gear Underdrive, DP 6 pos chip, V10 Trans Cooler, DieselSite - Coolant Filter Kit, Evans Coolant, 203 stat, DI reg Fuel Return, GT38R BB Turbo, AFE 2 Intake, Banks Intercooler, Air Rite Bags, |
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LANDYOT
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• Subscriber since 11/23/2003 |
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• Newport News, VA, USA |
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• Registered on 7/15/2003 |
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• 1,110 posts |
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Posted:9/12/2004 19:47 |
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I studied the rear of a 2005 on Friday. (No smarty replies, please  ... I know that sounded weird.) The only difference I could see in the rear suspension is that the anti-swaybar's drop-links are now mounted outside of the frame rails. The leaf springs are the same, with the same ol' snubber-style traction bar. This does not bode well for Ford because they are not hearing (or not listening to) the folks complain about the ride quality AND rear-axle induced steering (wandering) problems.  However, it does mean I could be supplying radius-rod kits for another model year of Excursion.  |
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jimmybigrig
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• winnipeg, XX, Canada |
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• Registered on 2/22/2003 |
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• 66 posts |
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Posted:9/14/2004 22:30 |
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i took out the rear spacer block on my 2001 4x4 to lower the back end a little and was wondering if your radius rod would work this spacer removed? also have 22 45/305 tires on is there any clearance problems with these tires. |
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LANDYOT
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• Subscriber since 11/23/2003 |
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• Newport News, VA, USA |
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• Registered on 7/15/2003 |
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• 1,110 posts |
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Posted:9/15/2004 14:14 |
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jimmybigrig - Basically, you've reset the rear end height to almost the same level as a 2WD model. No problem for the radius-rods ... I can make a set a bit shorter than the 4WD version. If you want some literature on the radius-rods, send me an e-mail (click on my username to gain access to the e-mail router service on this website). |
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ExcursionPSD
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• Milwaukee, WI, USA |
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• Registered on 9/16/2004 |
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• 27 posts |
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 Posted:9/17/2004 17:39 |
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My Excursion has the staggered rear calipers.
Does anyone know why this was done, and has anyone changed it over successfully?
I am considering the radius rods and understand it would not be compatible with the air bags which mount on top of the metal ear for the bump stop
2000 Excursion Limited born 11/99 4x4 Toreador Red ext./gray int. 7.3PSD, 3.73LS, Skidplates, Pwr/Htd TeleMirrors, 6CDchanger, HtdBuckets, LT265/75R16E Bridgestone Dueler A/T Revo, Ford Wraparound deflector, PSDV8 badging, RoofMarkerLights, Tekonsha Sentinel brake cntrlr, PCM=AXD0, WD 65hp chip, WalkerBigTruck Muffler, RS9000, Performance Friction 2 piece rotors/pads, Sylvania SilverStars, Landyot Gen III, Amsoil from MAXoil.com in diffs/trans/transfer 199k miles. |
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LANDYOT
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• Subscriber since 11/23/2003 |
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• Newport News, VA, USA |
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• Registered on 7/15/2003 |
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• 1,110 posts |
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Posted:9/18/2004 15:02 |
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| Quote: | | I am considering the radius rods and understand it would not be compatible with the air bags which mount on top of the metal ear for the bump stop |
Somebody (I cannot remember who ... didn't save that e-mail) sent me some photos of an air-bag arrangement mounted atop the metal bump-stops. However, the photos showed the later style (2003-on) bump-stops, which do not require trimming with a GEN-II radius-rod kit. Since the early style bump-stops have to be trimmed in order to install a GEN-II kit, I would not recommend using the air-bags on a fitting that has been trimmed (the later-style bump-stops do not require trimming). After being trimmed, I would not trust that early bump-stop to withstand the weight of the rear-end over a prolonged period ... like when the air-bags are in use. So, instead of attempting to swap out the driver-side brake caliper, plus all of the associated hardware (brake line, parking brake cable, etc.), have you given any thought to swapping out the bump-stops to later style pieces? |
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